Curse

Zui · Oct 01, 2006, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackie

So, decent gold drops from the chest aren't enough?
I would like to quote a famous musician: 'Cry me a river'

Some gold drops you get are absolutly amazing. Others, simply suck. Most of them suck. Plus, it's not always like you get a gold item, or any item at all for that matter. You can go 30+ wins in halls and not get a single item, or just get a r13 14^50 20/19 Sundering Hatchet of Enchanting(19%), oh and note that that is a real item I got from the Hall of Heroes' chest awhile back. Remember that the Hall of Heroes' chest drops just about every skin in the game(never seen or heard of a prophicies skinned Sickle, which is why I say most), with any possible stats on that item. I've gotten a few very nice items from the chest, but most of the 'rewards' I've gotten are so bad I just merchant them, because they're not worth the time it'd take to sell them for the gold they'd fetch.

Quite honestly, I could get more golds, with more quality golds solo chest running in PvE with my Warrior than I could holding halls, in the same amount of time. That's just sad. Winning and holding the hall of hereos' is alot more challenging and requires alot more skill and teamwork than solo chest running PvE.

So, ANET could increase the possibility that the golds you get are perfect, and have descent requirements and mods, or they could increase the amount of rare-skinned items that drop perhaps by changing the %chance, or just removing some of the crappy skinned items you get. Either way, I don't think most PvE players would be very happy at that, but correct me if I'm wrong.

ANET could increase the price of sigils, as suggested here, which wouldn't really screw up the market, and wouldn't adversely effect descent PvP guilds.

Or, they could do nothing and the rewards for winning the hall of heroes can remain a joke, except for that one time out of 10,000 drops when someone gets somthing amazingly good.

Curse You · Oct 01, 2006, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Hi, if you didn't know, PvP charactars are created with one set of armor, which is "perfect" and two weapon sets, which are also "perfect." However, PvP charactars are limited to that one set of armor, and two weapon sets from the PvP creation screen. So, if you want to have an advantage in PvP, like being able to change armor depenidng on the situation, have more weapon sets for more situations(or you're just running a Monk for example, who needs at least 4 weapon sets for their job pretty much by default), and so on, you absolutly do need to PvE. Sure, only competitive PvPers really have to do this, but then again, isn't PvP all about being competitive?

Wait, you say you can only have 2 weapon sets on a PvP character do you? That's funny, because I distictly rember being able to give them weapons that you could buy from most people in any big town. You want a weapon with a unique mod? Go and buy it, then give it to your PvP character. Problem solved.

Armor, however, is and issue. Many times I have been on a PvP monk, and wanted to be able to change from an energy set, to an armor set.

Edit about above post: So you want more of a reward than getting to play in a (supposedly) fun and competive environment, and then sometimes getting weapons worth more money than many PvE players have? I don't mean to sound insensitive, but aren't you just being a little selfish (or something like that)?

Thomas.knbk · Oct 01, 2006, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by broodijzer

Since when do PvPers have to spend 300 hours in pve? Can't you just create a char with the best stuff in a few minutes?

Well, it's supposed to be the best, but it isn't.
PvP characters can't armor swap, nor do they have more than 2 weapon slots

DreamCatcher · Oct 01, 2006, 08:30 AM // 08:30

So, to point out 1 thing said, pvp players feel they must make pve toons ready for pvp cuz those toons can swap armor, runes and weapons with more ease?

So if anet were to add a pvp-armorer and perhaps a pvp-rune trader and pvp-weapons crafter (all of these having the same armors/items available that the respective pvp players have available to their pve toons, like only people with factions having access to the +health armor and prophecies owners having access to the HOD hex helm etc) with all these items customized, insalvagable and untradable...would this mean pvp players wouldn't have to need to grind for pvp-ready pve toons and gold anymore?

This wouldn't solve pvp players's problems from having too many sigils wasting storage :P but atleast they wouldn't have to make (pve) money anymore for being more competitive in pvp.

I'm sorry for having straid this far off topic but I think what Zui mentioned about armor swapping only being possible for pve's and someone else saying pvp's hate having to do pve to pvp more effectively (and with less frustration) and vice versa is indeed a very valid point.

And about pve items dropping from chests...there -are- players that indeed like pvp as much as they like pve

jackie · Oct 01, 2006, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Some gold drops you get are absolutly amazing. Others, simply suck. Most of them suck. Plus, it's not always like you get a gold item, or any item at all for that matter. You can go 30+ wins in halls and not get a single item, or just get a r13 14^50 20/19 Sundering Hatchet of Enchanting(19%), oh and note that that is a real item I got from the Hall of Heroes' chest awhile back. Remember that the Hall of Heroes' chest drops just about every skin in the game(never seen or heard of a prophicies skinned Sickle, which is why I say most), with any possible stats on that item. I've gotten a few very nice items from the chest, but most of the 'rewards' I've gotten are so bad I just merchant them, because they're not worth the time it'd take to sell them for the gold they'd fetch.

Quite honestly, I could get more golds, with more quality golds solo chest running in PvE with my Warrior than I could holding halls, in the same amount of time. That's just sad. Winning and holding the hall of hereos' is alot more challenging and requires alot more skill and teamwork than solo chest running PvE.

So, ANET could increase the possibility that the golds you get are perfect, and have descent requirements and mods, or they could increase the amount of rare-skinned items that drop perhaps by changing the %chance, or just removing some of the crappy skinned items you get. Either way, I don't think most PvE players would be very happy at that, but correct me if I'm wrong.

ANET could increase the price of sigils, as suggested here, which wouldn't really screw up the market, and wouldn't adversely effect descent PvP guilds.

Or, they could do nothing and the rewards for winning the hall of heroes can remain a joke, except for that one time out of 10,000 drops when someone gets somthing amazingly good.

Yes, gold drops are random and there are more bad drops than good ones. And odds are against you when you open the chest. That's how it should always be.

From beginning of Hall Of Heroes to this day, sigil price has evolved to current state and hasn't unbalanced the economy. It has only made creation of new guilds a little bit easier. Now, are you really having hard time with gold at the moment with dozens of sigils floating in inventory. Not likely.

Whether to make PvP'ers richer, or let the creation of new guilds be easier.

I'd vote for the second option.

Zui · Oct 01, 2006, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Wait, you say you can only have 2 weapon sets on a PvP character do you? That's funny, because I distictly rember being able to give them weapons that you could buy from most people in any big town. You want a weapon with a unique mod? Go and buy it, then give it to your PvP character. Problem solved.

Lol. Ok, you can only have two sets that are customised and modded from the PvP charactar creation screen. You can of course BUY weapons and mods for those weapons, then put them on your PvP, heck if you BUY a weaponsmith for your Guild Hall you can even customize those weapons. The problem with this is, if you're already grinding in PvE to get the money to get that, why not just grind out a full PvE considering it's a huge advantage. That, and PvP charactars are really for the purpose of being able to reroll quickly. You absolutly do not want to have any PvE items you purchased on them at the time of deletion, meaning that the idea of buying stuff and customizing it is a very bad one in most cases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Armor, however, is and issue. Many times I have been on a PvP monk, and wanted to be able to change from an energy set, to an armor set.

The same issue applies to equally to weapons.

scamPOR · Oct 01, 2006, 09:59 AM // 09:59

This is a stupid discussion. Obviously you don't get 100k per halls win anymore... Boohoo you also do not get a billion fame spamming mindless spirits. In a way the newer players should be the ones complaining as they had a chance at nether of these things. Winning halls is not as difficult as most people think it is depending on the time of day. As a mostly pvp player I wouldn't mind sigils being 100k, but they HARDLY need to be. Sure it sucks winning halls 10 times and getting 3 crap golds and 1 sigil which sells for 8.5k.

In the long run sigil prices are a function of supply and demand and obviously demand is not all that high.

Hoh's function is not to give you 100 million plat, it's to compete in a flawed setting against other people trying to take advantage of these flaws.

shardfenix · Oct 01, 2006, 12:24 PM // 12:24

The whole GW economy is retarted, not just sigils. Superior vigor used to be worth 100K, now it is only worth like 30K. Sup absorption went from 100K down to 4K. Instead of lowering drop rates, here's what arenanet needs to do.
Every day, lower the variables that store the amount of items the merchants have, thus raising prices slightly. A few days of tinkering from intelligent designers, or 4 months of tinkering from arenanet programmers, would be enough to stabilize the GW economy.

shardfenix · Oct 01, 2006, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by scamPOR

This is a stupid discussion. Obviously you don't get 100k per halls win anymore... Boohoo you also do not get a billion fame spamming mindless spirits. In a way the newer players should be the ones complaining as they had a chance at nether of these things. Winning halls is not as difficult as most people think it is depending on the time of day. As a mostly pvp player I wouldn't mind sigils being 100k, but they HARDLY need to be. Sure it sucks winning halls 10 times and getting 3 crap golds and 1 sigil which sells for 8.5k.

In the long run sigil prices are a function of supply and demand and obviously demand is not all that high.

Hoh's function is not to give you 100 million plat, it's to compete in a flawed setting against other people trying to take advantage of these flaws.

The rest of you should take notes. Somebody knows what he's talking about.

Scavenger Rage · Oct 01, 2006, 01:22 PM // 13:22

The last post just confirmed everything I said btw Zui...

And since all I see you doing is moaning about money in a game money doesn't metter either for PVE or PVP I will simply rest my case (god forbid I spend another 15min reading huge posts that goes no where like the last one).

Also as far as I know you take way too much things in your own metter... "90% of PVE are farmers..." "all top guildies have PVE..." If you wanna show me anyday the researchs you done to find out this informations I would be glad to see....otherwise, it is just more and more winning...

--- THE END ---

Navaros · Oct 01, 2006, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

So you want more of a reward than getting to play in a (supposedly) fun and competive environment, and then sometimes getting weapons worth more money than many PvE players have? I don't mean to sound insensitive, but aren't you just being a little selfish (or something like that)?

I say just the opposite is true. It seems to me that most PVE players hate the idea of HoH giving a decent reward (as it was originally designed to do by the devs!) simply because they are selfish and based on that selfishness they don't want PVP players to have good stuff like they have.

With no rewards the game is not fun. Winning HoH when Sigils were worth something was fun. Getting to the HoH map was actually exciting. Now getting to the HoH map results in a resounding "Who cares if we win or not, it's not like it makes any difference to anything whatsoever".

The words you used " So you want more of a reward than getting to play in a (supposedly) fun and competive environment" could easily be slightly altered to apply to PVE players who using the same logic should be no more rewarded than the fun of winning against AI monsters in a cooperative environment.

Yet if they took Ectos and PVE rewards away or let them forever devolve to 1/10th of their normal worth (as Sigils have, and a change so extreme that it is clearly outright ludicrous), then you'd have the PVE community crying bloody murder instead of saying "This game is supposed to fun with no rewards so rewards are not needed, stop complaining!"

It's a double standard and a hypocritical one at that.

The other poster is right who said that this Suggestions forum should have two sections: one for PVP and one for PVE. Because the PVE players who post en masse that they want to have game forever apply this double standard against PVP players simply because they can never personally win HoH is not a fair and just representation of how the game should be.

Curse You · Oct 01, 2006, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Yet if they took Ectos and PVE rewards away or let them forever devolve to 1/10th of their normal worth (as Sigils have, and a change so extreme that it is clearly outright ludicrous), then you'd have the PVE community crying bloody murder instead of saying "This game is supposed to fun with no rewards so rewards are not needed, stop complaining!"

Yes, because Ectos have always been worth around 7k, and always drop when you go to the Underworld, and they have so many uses.

Maybe we should freeze ecto prices at 50k each? I mean, it's unfair that now farming the Underworld is barely worth anything. When I pay 1k to go somewhere, I want something worthwhile. I don't care if I meet some really fun people while I'm farming, I just want money, because nothing else matters.

See, your whole idea of "Anet hates PvPers because Sigils aren't worth anything" is easy to turn around and apply to PvE.

Navaros · Oct 02, 2006, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Yes, because Ectos have always been worth around 7k, and always drop when you go to the Underworld, and they have so many uses.

Maybe we should freeze ecto prices at 50k each? I mean, it's unfair that now farming the Underworld is barely worth anything. When I pay 1k to go somewhere, I want something worthwhile. I don't care if I meet some really fun people while I'm farming, I just want money, because nothing else matters.

See, your whole idea of "Anet hates PvPers because Sigils aren't worth anything" is easy to turn around and apply to PvE.

When a team puts the time, organization, effort, and skill investment into winning HoH then they do rightfully want something worthwhile as a reward just like they got when the game first came out. But they don't get it.

What you say in the quote here may not be your sincere feelings, but they do indeed represent the sincere feelings of the vast majority of players. That is why Tyria is completely dead. At the end of the day after all the content has been completed, getting rewards for doing stuff is the only thing that keeps people playing and having fun in an RPG game. If that was not the case then every town in all Chapters would be populated with tons of people wanting to do every mission for the 100th time since "the thrill of cooperative play" is so rewarding in and of itself. Yet in reality that is not the case at all and the towns are completely empty because most people can't be bothered doing things in an RPG game for no reward. Nor would it make sense for them to want to.

They should freeze Ecto prices too, sure, but not at 50k as that is not a fair and reasonable price for one Ecto. I'd say if there were to freeze Ecto prices then 8.5k would be a reasonable price. However, this is not nearly as necessary as freezing Sigil prices seeing as Ectos have not lost 90% of their value, and remained at that price for over a year. Ectos' slight fluctuations is not a grievous problems, but Sigils' permanent devolution of 90% of their value is.

If Ecto prices drop to under 4k for one or two days then the winds of mass hysteria already start blowing but then they subside as the prices go back up within the week.

It's pretty evident that if Ectos started being worth only 850g for over a year (ie: having permanently lost 90% of their value) then the players would rally en masse and demand a solution to the problem until Anet delivered it.

I am of the opinion that the reason why Sigil prices have not been fixed is simply because PVP players do not speak up enough about it and the few times when they do they get drowned out by PVE players who don't even play HoH and hence have no vested interest in the issue. But regardless of PVE players usually being more vocal and numerous in their grievances with the game, the devs should still take a reasonable view of the Sigils situation and realize that there is nothing reasonable about what should be the best reward in the game having permanently lost 90% of it's value; thus dev intervention is required.

Curse You · Oct 02, 2006, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

What you say in the quote here may not be your sincere feelings, but they do indeed represent the sincere feelings of the vast majority of players. That is why Tyria is completely dead. At the end of the day after all the content has been completed, getting rewards for doing stuff is the only thing that keeps people playing and having fun in an RPG game. If that was not the case then every town in all Chapters would be populated with tons of people wanting to do every mission for the 100th time since "the thrill of cooperative play" is so rewarding in and of itself. Yet in reality that is not the case at all and the towns are completely empty because most people can't be bothered doing things in an RPG game for no reward. Nor would it make sense for them to want to.

Now here's the thing.

A PvE character is created so that you can do the campaign, kill monsters, farm gold, get item, buy armor, and just interact with people all over the GW world.
A PvP character is created so that you can join with groups of people, to go against other people.

Now, as you can see, the main purpose of a PvE character is to make money for more items and go all over the place to find more items/money.
The main purpose of a PvP character is to kill other people, and so present a challenge, where you must outplay the other people and come up with better builds.

When did it become that a character made to play against other people, started needing things used to make more money/get items?

Sure they always have had sigils as the reward for winning HoH as well as some (usually) good items, but there was actually no real need for them. Naturally, since at first there was no supply of Sigils, they started out at the highest price possible when they emmerged.

Now over time, more people got Sigils because more people started getting to the HoH, and as such, the price went down. Today, Sigils are won about 1 every 5 minutes (battles are every 15 minutes, and last 15 minutes). Now of course they will be worth barely anything.

You want Sigils to be worth more? Stop winning battles in HoH so often, reduce the number being optained. The game devs are not going to make a trader who has opperated on supply and demand suddenly change to fixed prices.

Zui · Oct 02, 2006, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Today, Sigils are won about 1 every 5 minutes (battles are every 15 minutes, and last 15 minutes). Now of course they will be worth barely anything.

Umm, battles are spaced out 6 minutes apart. Each battle lasts 4 minutes, with a one minute buffer time before the match starts to make sure people are loaded and ready, and after the match starts so the winners can collect their rewards.

This was semi-rescently changed from battles being spaced out 12 minutes apart, not 15 minutes apart. Each battle used to last 10 minutes, with the same one minute buffer time before and after the match.

But, you've probably never even watched a match in Halls on observer mode, much less been there. So why exactly are you commenting on this when you don't even know general specifics that even people who have never been to halls, or watched a game in halls know by simply reading the patch notes?

Oh, and by the way, most of the items dropped by the Hall of Heroes' chest are not good, and you stated that they are "usually good."

Someone else can adress the rest of your post.

Phoenix Arrows · Oct 02, 2006, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Wow...stop whining over your sigils. You're rich enough, you don't need another 500k. A lot of people have less than 5k. If sigils are going to be worth 100k each, how do you expect a group of friends to meet in privacy and chat? Make them all put in the 5k they have left? Not everyone likes the grind of farming for money. I personally don't like it. I am just blessed with the money that my cousin gave me when he stopped playing. If you are so upset that you can't do FoW or UW because you just HAVE TO get Favor, then just log on another time when your territory has favor and do FoW or UW until your brains fall out. If you really PvP that much and are good at it, you should be able to get 10k or more every 10 minutes by holding HoH. If you aren't lucky enough to hold Halls, then go farm Ectos until you're even richer. PvP isn't meant to generate money. It is meant for you to have fun competing with other people. The chest for winning is just an added thing so there is more of a motive. PvPers have Rank, tons of Faction (UAX probably), and get their name/guild sent throughout GW. What else do you want? PvPers can use PvP characters to PvP. *sarcasm* Who would've thought of that? *sarcasm*. Not everyone plays that much, and the 100k sigil is going to restrict people from getting a place to have some privacy to hang out. PvPers don't need gold, PvEers need a place to hang. Stop whining. 1 million is a lot. You don't need more. Guild Wars is just a game.

Kai Nui · Oct 02, 2006, 05:21 AM // 05:21

I understand the OP's pain, as I feel the same pain aswell. Something that used to mean something to a lot of people is just being brushed off as just another worthless trinket. Does anyone remember Sissy Boys? I Sell Sigils P S T? Probably not. Ever since the portal was moved out of good ol' tombs I feel like it's just on the decline and there's no going back. There's really no hope of going back, and with every chapter the original guild wars dies. Maybe a lot of people don't see it because a lot of people here do PVE much more than originally intended by the game developers, but there's nothing I can do to change that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Now here's the thing.

A PvE character is created so that you can do the campaign, kill monsters, farm gold, get item, buy armor, and just interact with people all over the GW world.
A PvP character is created so that you can join with groups of people, to go against other people.

Now, as you can see, the main purpose of a PvE character is to make money for more items and go all over the place to find more items/money.
The main purpose of a PvP character is to kill other people, and so present a challenge, where you must outplay the other people and come up with better builds.

When did it become that a character made to play against other people, started needing things used to make more money/get items?

Sure they always have had sigils as the reward for winning HoH as well as some (usually) good items, but there was actually no real need for them. Naturally, since at first there was no supply of Sigils, they started out at the highest price possible when they emmerged.

Now over time, more people got Sigils because more people started getting to the HoH, and as such, the price went down. Today, Sigils are won about 1 every 5 minutes (battles are every 15 minutes, and last 15 minutes). Now of course they will be worth barely anything.

You want Sigils to be worth more? Stop winning battles in HoH so often, reduce the number being optained. The game devs are not going to make a trader who has opperated on supply and demand suddenly change to fixed prices.

That is probably the most idiotic post I've seen in my entire life. Since when did your oppinion of the purpose of PVE and PVP become fact? And you obviously don't know what HoH is if you can say, "Stop winning battles in HoH so often, reduce the number being obtained."

Go RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO yourself, you living piece of shit. You don't deserve to talk about something you know absolutely nothing about. The sad thing is, you represent a lot of people on earth, and I'd like to make this post longer if it wasn't for the blood loss from my wrists.

And Phoenix Arrows before I die, one last thing: Not every PVPer is rich. I mean honestly, that's a pretty absurd claim. It's not like money drops every time you kill something in PVP...

Lews · Oct 02, 2006, 05:49 AM // 05:49

He's an old friend of mine actually

We still keep in touch.

PvE is boring, but it is usually needed if you wish to be in high competitve placings for PvP.

Guild Wars is dying. Look at the teams in GvG these days. Besides the top 20 they all suck. I remember my first guild I was in after release ( not counting beta guilds ) we were about 10:2, rating of about 1050 or something, and we were only rank 2100.

People used to play alot. Back then no one cared how much the Sigils costs, why should they care now?

Lews · Oct 02, 2006, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Now here's the thing.

Now over time, more people got Sigils because more people started getting to the HoH, and as such, the price went down. Today, Sigils are won about 1 every 5 minutes (battles are every 15 minutes, and last 15 minutes). Now of course they will be worth barely anything.

You want Sigils to be worth more? Stop winning battles in HoH so often, reduce the number being optained. The game devs are not going to make a trader who has opperated on supply and demand suddenly change to fixed prices.

Now here's the thing, do you have any idea what you are talking about? They used to be 1 Sigil per 12 minutes. Then 3 Sigils per 12 minutes. Now it is 2 Sigils ever 6 minutes.

Stop winning? People win no matter what. It won't do anything to stop playing.

Go play in HA, win once or twice ( its not even hard anymore ) and then you might have a small idea what you are talking about.

tomcruisejr · Oct 02, 2006, 06:27 AM // 06:27

A "veteran" crying over "worthless" sigils is pure forum gold entertainment.

2 words: Move on.